Rowleym Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 biggest problem is the added cost and complexity for something that I just want to beat on every day. That wasn't much of an argument haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 It seems more expensive and troublesome to build a proper turbo setup for an m20 versus an m50.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patsbimmer1 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 m50's really aren't that complicated or expensive. They put an m5x in damn near everything from 1990 to 2001 so finding parts is simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Now you gotta explain yourself lol. Ill be building the turbo manifold(m20 is by far easier, just a simple adapter) and Ill be doing standalone ms2. And with the 24v ill have to do something about the compression ratio for pump gas. I don't want to redue all the timing and stuff, so head studs plus meth injection will be it for the first round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 m50's really aren't that complicated or expensive. They put an m5x in damn near everything from 1990 to 2001 so finding parts is simple.Thats exactly my argument towards 24v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Now you gotta explain yourself lol. Ill be building the turbo manifold(m20 is by far easier, just a simple adapter) and Ill be doing standalone ms2. And with the 24v ill have to do something about the compression ratio for pump gas. I don't want to redue all the timing and stuff, so head studs plus meth injection will be it for the first round. this is for earl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 I have seen plenty of turbo m50 cars running pump gas with nothing special done for compression. Ask Snap how much fun it was to put together his turbo setup and then ask people who have turboed M5x/S5x motors. If you think of it, the m50 breathes better and makes more power out of the box. That means you would need to run less boost to reach your power goals with an m50 versus an m20. If you chose to do a vanos motor that helps you even more=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patsbimmer1 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Boosting stock compression on the m50 isn't an issue either. If someones looking to run in the 400+ range then they are lowering compression to a more suitable 8.5 or 9 but for an m50 running 10:1 on 8psi is not a problem to easily make 350whp. Why do you keep talking about adding meth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 He must like meth=) I think of it as the m20 doesn't breathe as well and makes less power stock. The m50 breathes better and makes more power stock. In my head that means the m50 would be more reliable since it isn't being stressed as much to make the power=) patsbimmer1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Also, food for thought=) http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28307 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Boosting stock compression on the m50 isn't an issue either. If someones looking to run in the 400+ range then they are lowering compression to a more suitable 8.5 or 9 but for an m50 running 10:1 on 8psi is not a problem to easily make 350whp. Why do you keep talking about adding meth?Okay so I have a holset turbo with t3 exhaust side split pulse that I will be using. I will need to run 15psi+ as it wont be efficient below that. I will definitely have a twin scroll manifold. I am talking about adding meth because I'm not going to use a headgasket spacer, and I'm not going to use forged pistons. This will take care of the compression ratio issue. This will only be a 300$ endeavor though, so its not terrible. Okay so I think I might just do 24v, simply because I have the entire swap sitting in my garage..... and I'm getting sick of trying to find an m20 motor for a reasonable cost for reasonable miles. So I guess that means its time to get used to the timing and O ring the block/change the head gasket? I'm guessing the head gasket/timing stuff will cost me close to 300$ for the materials? I already have the bolts I'm going to use, and I will O ring the block with SS welding wire I have. Anyone think I should mill down the stock pistons to lower compression at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rampelsauce Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Paging Snap. When are you going to CAD model and recreate the Racing Dyamics 24v M20 head? I know you've thought about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunMetalGrey Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 So I guess that means its time to get used to the timing and O ring the block/change the head gasket? Pulled the head (including headers) off of Tim's s52 in under an hour and a half lol. Its not too bad. Love having to pull heads after realizing that the engine ate the pintle caps off of the injectors lol, but on a side note it appears to have solid lifters as well?Can't wait till it is tuned well and can get some cars lined up and see what it really does!Back to your turbo talk, though I feel like I should have chimed in at some point.24v for life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 rampelsauce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B C Posted December 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Paging Snap. When are you going to CAD model and recreate the Racing Dyamics 24v M20 head? I know you've thought about it. Actually I was just thinking about this yesterday and wondering how many castings it would require to end up with a usable part. rampelsauce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Pulled the head (including headers) off of Tim's s52 in under an hour and a half lol. Its not too bad. Love having to pull heads after realizing that the engine ate the pintle caps off of the injectors lol, but on a side note it appears to have solid lifters as well?Can't wait till it is tuned well and can get some cars lined up and see what it really does!Back to your turbo talk, though I feel like I should have chimed in at some point.24v for life!Hey not bad! But on an m20, you are only out, probably 30-40 minutes and you don't need to make the manifold off lol. But the big thing, how long for you to put it back together timed? I think I'm just being a baby because I haven't done an m5x, but I did a VW vr6 with a timing when i was 17 and retarded with mechanics, so i probably shouldn't be uncomfortable. Actually I was just thinking about this yesterday and wondering how many castings it would require to end up with a usable part. Billet alum sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunMetalGrey Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Have yet to put it back on, but the hardest part is tightening the darn cams down slowly. I should really make the tool to put pressure on the cams, would be worth it at this point. We also have some of the specialty tools to make things faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jockhater2 Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Blah. Trucks. I got a restored E21, and a motorcycle...so why would I get another car? Cars are only good for commuting. Every time I need any actual work done I have to borrow my friends truck. Trucks are very useful. Well. Unless you get a gas truck. Then I guess you can enjoy picking up groceries with ease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassE Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Turbo M20.Parts are cheap, motors are cheap, easy to work on, etc...D-U-N.I made Captain Crunch Chicken for dinner.... And it was AMAZING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassE Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Oh yeah - and.... "Turbo 400whp" and "daily" are missing the other keyword always associated with them: "Broke"Well... 2 words:"Shits Broke"Okay... 3 words:"Shits Always Broke"Forget it... More like:"You're gonna blow up diffs, clutches, driveline pieces, motor parts, gaskets-ga-friggen-lore, and countless other parts until you sell it for next to nothing and buy a biege Camry... And Shits. Always. Broke." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 I think you are being very over dramatic. There are many examples of turbo e30s at over 400whp that have been reliable for a long time. And there are many 24v's past 400whp. Probably twice as many 500whp 24v's then 400whp m20's. But really, putting down anything past 400whp is hard in an e30. But i think the biggest reason for me going 24v, is that my car didn't come with an m20b25, and that I can't find one for a reasonable price that I don't have to rebuild, and that I already have the whole 24v swap. I'm going to try to cut up the stock exhaust manifolds and add 2" v bands for an adapter piece? I think it might work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REKIII Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Trucks are very useful. Well. Unless you get a gas truck. Then I guess you can enjoy picking up groceries with ease. You're one of those guys.......oh well. Rowleym 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassE Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 I think you are being very over dramatic.Nope. The last guy I knew who even thought about going this route had his car burst into flames the second he bought his first turbo related parts. Another guy bought an old Toyota minivan and mutters to himself about injector impedence v.s. load charges in MS - all while watching his clutch slip like a 90 yr old lady on her way into church after an ice storm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 You're one of those guys.......oh well.I have a big rant about diesel queers(you know who you are) coming up when I have some free time. too many damn 3/4 ton grocery getters. jockhater2 and wasnt m3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted December 10, 2014 Report Share Posted December 10, 2014 Nope. The last guy I knew who even thought about going this route had his car burst into flames the second he bought his first turbo related parts. Another guy bought an old Toyota minivan and mutters to himself about injector impedence v.s. load charges in MS - all while watching his clutch slip like a 90 yr old lady on her way into church after an ice storm. No doubt 400 whp is achievable going either route - and it would likely run great.... For awhile. I've just watched too many budget minded turbo builds infuriate people due to breaking parts and wallets on a regular basis. I stand by the "build in right - build it once" mentality. If you want 400 whp in a daily, build it to handle 600 whp and resist the urge to up the boost.Maybe I'm alittle too caught up on the "daily" part of this though - IDK. Remove that word and I say go for it.For a max effort 24v build I would shoot for over 600whp on the stock block anyways! m20 would be about 400whp, so I think 24v makes senseThe whole daily thing- I want this car so I can beat on it all the time, with relatively full interior, thats street legal. Or at least close enough not to get pulled over all the timeI have other cars to drive so its not like if it breaks down its a real problem. I bought this car because I want a backup car, thats dead nuts, a lot of fun, and cheap, which I'm very confident I can make happen. I was about 2 seconds away from buying entirely too much stuff for my wrx, and I didn't want that to be broken all the time, when I actually need it haha. Id rather leave it stock, and have much more fun, with less money, with a bmw. I want a car I can drive 365 days a year! Someday when I have like 10k to blow Ill build the wrx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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