i_love_cars

This is going to be epic...

Holy shnikes. 
That is all. 

1/8/2019 Update - I am changing the status of this to "on hold". The donor car is being parted out this week but I am holding on to the engine, ECU, CAS module, EWS module, etc. basically all the bits needed for the swap. It may be a year or two before I do it, or I may end up selling the engine for cash at some point down the road, but for now I think it makes sense to just keep the stuff I need for the swap since I can break even on the donor car purchase simply by parting out everything else. The transmission has already been sold for 2800 which is nearly half of what I paid for the car. Unfortunately my house needs new windows and a couple doors and I have stupid fancy windows that is going to cost me at least $45k to replace everything. My hope is that by sometime in 2020 I can re-consider this swap project and pick it up again. 
I am still preparing for the swap by putting a 4.10 2-clutch diff in the E46 this spring since it needs a new diff anyway. This is the diff that we would be using when swapping the S85 in, and it makes sense anyway since BMW M-differentials suck horribly due to their locking being based on hydro upon slippage during a turn as opposed to any sort of pre-emptive locking like a proper LSD from diffsOnline will do. 
 
12/17/2018 Update - I am canning this project and parting out the donor car for profit. I originally had a top-end budget of gross cost of 30k including the donor car. I have talked to some other shops who have done this swap multiple times with full OBD2 compliance, a/c, etc. like I was planning and there are some budget items that are just wrong on the estimate. Realistic gross cost should be factored at about 40k and even that may be a bit light. Our original cost estimates were based off of Epic's swaps, but that doesn't really factor in that Epic builds race cars that don't need to be emissions compliant, nor do they need to worry about stuff like ground clearance. I learned that without modifying the frame rails, the oil pan on the s85 will sit too close to the ground for a street car, so you need to do some fabrication work to modify the frame rails accordingly. I have also learned that whether it's using the E60 ECu or the Awron standalone, both are a nightmare to wire. We were under the impression that the E60 ECU would be a lot more straightforward, but I'm hearing otherwise from reputable sources. 
So I am going to use the profits of the partout to pay for an upgraded LSD (my current diff is in really bad shape), and cover the cost of my BBK. 
 
12/15/2018 Update - The bottom of this post is updated and will continue to be updated with full list of budget items for the build
 
I already have an E46 thread but this feels like it's going to be worth a separate post. I want a dedicated thread where I can post information about the swap as it happens and document everything. 
I've been talking about a swap with E-fab Motorsports for a couple months now, knowing that a V10 in an E46 would be a dream to park next to my S65. Research has been done, and other shops who have done these swaps have been contacted for information. We know what the budget should be, and I'll be working with E-fab such that this car can hopefully be used to help promote Eric's business in the Chicago area and potentially beyond. He's done a lot of good work for me this past year and we've developed a good relationship, he's able to fabricate and has a great wiring tech so I feel like this is a sound partnership for the swap. 
What is the goal? This will be a complete swap with fully functioning amenities - A/C, heat, power windows, push button start, etc. Nothing is going to be haggard or half-assed. The custom exhaust will even be valved with an in-cabin F-you button to activate/deactivate. The swap is not done with a standalone ECU/programming. The car will use the stock E60 M5 ECU, flashed by Epic and wired in to the E46 harness and dash cluster. 
Some key points of consideration:
1) stock e46 M3 steering rack can be used with an S85 from this 2008 donor because by 2008 BMW had moved the CAS module out of the M5 steering column. This is enormously helpful because it allows the swap to go on without any suspension modification or steering modification 
2) The engine fits with no modification required to the oil pan, and stock S85 headers also fit although it is tight. 
3) Fabrication requirements are limited mainly to custom engine mount brackets, some subframe modification, and making a driveshaft/shifter assembly. A couple odds and ends need to also be fabricated like custom power steering lines which is about 400 bucks, and some custom coolant hard lines to the block
4) A 6MT from an E9x M3 can be used in this swap as it bolts right up to the S85 block
Most of this basic info has been procured from Epic who has done a couple of these swaps, and they also provide a flash tune for the ECU for this swap
Now, on to the real exciting news - Steve at Blunt Tech posted a 2008 M5 on R3V a few days ago with only 33k miles on it, totaled due to side impact (see photos). He sent a video of the car starting right up and mechanically it is all good. Other than being an SMG, it's a perfect donor. It was only $7k which I am sure I can recoup most of by selling the Dinan exhaust, rear end, low mileage SMG, suspension, wheels, and probably the currently ruined interior to a tracksuit-wearing russian with a 530i (E-fab made up the part about the russian but I'm taking credit anyway).
The car has been acquired as of now. Sometime over the next month I'll likely be down there in the shop helping Eric part out the shit I want to sell. The actual swap work will likely begin in January/February and hopefully be done by April. 
Before anyone asks the inevitable question of "what are you gonna do with your S54 engine/trans/harness?" - I don't know for sure yet, but the current ideas are this:
1) Eric at Efab needs an engine for his E36 so we may be working out a deal for the labor on this swap by giving him my S54 parts so he can build his E36
2) Buy an E30, do an S54 swap and rejoin the cool kid E30 crew so I don't feel out of place when rolling with TJ, or more than likely flip it on BaT for double my money and make a $10k profit which would make my entire S85 swap....basically free lol
3) Sell it as a swap kit to a person in need who I don't deem to be a shitfuck. 
For posterity, I have to post 1 pic of the E46 as it currently is. Pics of the M5 donor are below:

 

 
I have talked with Efab at length and we've gathered cost information from several parts providers for everything that needs to be customized at this point - things like the radiator, ac lines, oil cooler/lines, etc. which all are going to have to be custom built. This list is not exhaustive and will be updated over time - it includes what we feel is 98% of the necessary parts for the build currently. 
It is worth noting that this does not include labor costs for things like R&R the engine between the S85/E46, or labor to part out the S85, or installing the additional parts on the E46 like the new diff, trans/clutch, etc. Most of that is being given to me for free by Efab since the expectation is that promotion from this build will likely net them some new deep-pocketed customers in the future.
PRICING / PARTS BREAKDOWN:
 
 
 
 

1/8/2019 Update - I am changing the status of this to "on hold". The donor car is being parted out this week but I am holding on to the engine, ECU, CAS module, EWS module, etc. basically all the bits needed for the swap. It may be a year or two before I do it, or I may end up selling the engine for cash at some point down the road, but for now I think it makes sense to just keep the stuff I need for the swap since I can break even on the donor car purchase simply by parting out everything else. The transmission has already been sold for 2800 which is nearly half of what I paid for the car. Unfortunately my house needs new windows and a couple doors and I have stupid fancy windows that is going to cost me at least $45k to replace everything. My hope is that by sometime in 2020 I can re-consider this swap project and pick it up again. 
I am still preparing for the swap by putting a 4.10 2-clutch diff in the E46 this spring since it needs a new diff anyway. This is the diff that we would be using when swapping the S85 in, and it makes sense anyway since BMW M-differentials suck horribly due to their locking being based on hydro upon slippage during a turn as opposed to any sort of pre-emptive locking like a proper LSD from diffsOnline will do. 
 
12/17/2018 Update - I am canning this project and parting out the donor car for profit. I originally had a top-end budget of gross cost of 30k including the donor car. I have talked to some other shops who have done this swap multiple times with full OBD2 compliance, a/c, etc. like I was planning and there are some budget items that are just wrong on the estimate. Realistic gross cost should be factored at about 40k and even that may be a bit light. Our original cost estimates were based off of Epic's swaps, but that doesn't really factor in that Epic builds race cars that don't need to be emissions compliant, nor do they need to worry about stuff like ground clearance. I learned that without modifying the frame rails, the oil pan on the s85 will sit too close to the ground for a street car, so you need to do some fabrication work to modify the frame rails accordingly. I have also learned that whether it's using the E60 ECu or the Awron standalone, both are a nightmare to wire. We were under the impression that the E60 ECU would be a lot more straightforward, but I'm hearing otherwise from reputable sources. 
So I am going to use the profits of the partout to pay for an upgraded LSD (my current diff is in really bad shape), and cover the cost of my BBK. 
 
12/15/2018 Update - The bottom of this post is updated and will continue to be updated with full list of budget items for the build
 
I already have an E46 thread but this feels like it's going to be worth a separate post. I want a dedicated thread where I can post information about the swap as it happens and document everything. 
I've been talking about a swap with E-fab Motorsports for a couple months now, knowing that a V10 in an E46 would be a dream to park next to my S65. Research has been done, and other shops who have done these swaps have been contacted for information. We know what the budget should be, and I'll be working with E-fab such that this car can hopefully be used to help promote Eric's business in the Chicago area and potentially beyond. He's done a lot of good work for me this past year and we've developed a good relationship, he's able to fabricate and has a great wiring tech so I feel like this is a sound partnership for the swap. 
What is the goal? This will be a complete swap with fully functioning amenities - A/C, heat, power windows, push button start, etc. Nothing is going to be haggard or half-assed. The custom exhaust will even be valved with an in-cabin F-you button to activate/deactivate. The swap is not done with a standalone ECU/programming. The car will use the stock E60 M5 ECU, flashed by Epic and wired in to the E46 harness and dash cluster. 
Some key points of consideration:
1) stock e46 M3 steering rack can be used with an S85 from this 2008 donor because by 2008 BMW had moved the CAS module out of the M5 steering column. This is enormously helpful because it allows the swap to go on without any suspension modification or steering modification 
2) The engine fits with no modification required to the oil pan, and stock S85 headers also fit although it is tight. 
3) Fabrication requirements are limited mainly to custom engine mount brackets, some subframe modification, and making a driveshaft/shifter assembly. A couple odds and ends need to also be fabricated like custom power steering lines which is about 400 bucks, and some custom coolant hard lines to the block
4) A 6MT from an E9x M3 can be used in this swap as it bolts right up to the S85 block
Most of this basic info has been procured from Epic who has done a couple of these swaps, and they also provide a flash tune for the ECU for this swap
Now, on to the real exciting news - Steve at Blunt Tech posted a 2008 M5 on R3V a few days ago with only 33k miles on it, totaled due to side impact (see photos). He sent a video of the car starting right up and mechanically it is all good. Other than being an SMG, it's a perfect donor. It was only $7k which I am sure I can recoup most of by selling the Dinan exhaust, rear end, low mileage SMG, suspension, wheels, and probably the currently ruined interior to a tracksuit-wearing russian with a 530i (E-fab made up the part about the russian but I'm taking credit anyway).
The car has been acquired as of now. Sometime over the next month I'll likely be down there in the shop helping Eric part out the shit I want to sell. The actual swap work will likely begin in January/February and hopefully be done by April. 
Before anyone asks the inevitable question of "what are you gonna do with your S54 engine/trans/harness?" - I don't know for sure yet, but the current ideas are this:
1) Eric at Efab needs an engine for his E36 so we may be working out a deal for the labor on this swap by giving him my S54 parts so he can build his E36
2) Buy an E30, do an S54 swap and rejoin the cool kid E30 crew so I don't feel out of place when rolling with TJ, or more than likely flip it on BaT for double my money and make a $10k profit which would make my entire S85 swap....basically free lol
3) Sell it as a swap kit to a person in need who I don't deem to be a shitfuck. 
For posterity, I have to post 1 pic of the E46 as it currently is. Pics of the M5 donor are below:

 

 
I have talked with Efab at length and we've gathered cost information from several parts providers for everything that needs to be customized at this point - things like the radiator, ac lines, oil cooler/lines, etc. which all are going to have to be custom built. This list is not exhaustive and will be updated over time - it includes what we feel is 98% of the necessary parts for the build currently. 
It is worth noting that this does not include labor costs for things like R&R the engine between the S85/E46, or labor to part out the S85, or installing the additional parts on the E46 like the new diff, trans/clutch, etc. Most of that is being given to me for free by Efab since the expectation is that promotion from this build will likely net them some new deep-pocketed customers in the future.
PRICING / PARTS BREAKDOWN:
 
 
 
 

Normally I would say no, I'm not keeping my current BMWs forever. 
In real terms, though, we are at a point in history now where if you want a really good driving experience with some purity, you have no choice but to keep the "older" bmws. I look around today and ask "what can tick the boxes of high revving V8, manual, RWD, nice interior, good looking, and has great road feel?" There is nothing. The closest thing is a GT350 mustang but that fails on interior quality, and I've parked my E92 next to one before and side by side, the GT350 looks like a crackerjack box toy. Just cheap plastic and shit. It looks like a gimmick at that angle. 
I just don't know what there is to move on to. I think at this point I would be just acquiring more old cars as opposed to replacing my BMWs. 

Came here for s54 reasons 
 

I love this because when the day comes that you're ready to sell the car, I can buy it.

1/8/2019 Update - I am changing the status of this to "on hold". The donor car is being parted out this week but I am holding on to the engine, ECU, CAS module, EWS module, etc. basically all the bits needed for the swap. It may be a year or two before I do it, or I may end up selling the engine for cash at some point down the road, but for now I think it makes sense to just keep the stuff I need for the swap since I can break even on the donor car purchase simply by parting out everything else. The transmission has already been sold for 2800 which is nearly half of what I paid for the car. Unfortunately my house needs new windows and a couple doors and I have stupid fancy windows that is going to cost me at least $45k to replace everything. My hope is that by sometime in 2020 I can re-consider this swap project and pick it up again. 
I am still preparing for the swap by putting a 4.10 2-clutch diff in the E46 this spring since it needs a new diff anyway. This is the diff that we would be using when swapping the S85 in, and it makes sense anyway since BMW M-differentials suck horribly due to their locking being based on hydro upon slippage during a turn as opposed to any sort of pre-emptive locking like a proper LSD from diffsOnline will do. 
 
12/17/2018 Update - I am canning this project and parting out the donor car for profit. I originally had a top-end budget of gross cost of 30k including the donor car. I have talked to some other shops who have done this swap multiple times with full OBD2 compliance, a/c, etc. like I was planning and there are some budget items that are just wrong on the estimate. Realistic gross cost should be factored at about 40k and even that may be a bit light. Our original cost estimates were based off of Epic's swaps, but that doesn't really factor in that Epic builds race cars that don't need to be emissions compliant, nor do they need to worry about stuff like ground clearance. I learned that without modifying the frame rails, the oil pan on the s85 will sit too close to the ground for a street car, so you need to do some fabrication work to modify the frame rails accordingly. I have also learned that whether it's using the E60 ECu or the Awron standalone, both are a nightmare to wire. We were under the impression that the E60 ECU would be a lot more straightforward, but I'm hearing otherwise from reputable sources. 
So I am going to use the profits of the partout to pay for an upgraded LSD (my current diff is in really bad shape), and cover the cost of my BBK. 
 
12/15/2018 Update - The bottom of this post is updated and will continue to be updated with full list of budget items for the build
 
I already have an E46 thread but this feels like it's going to be worth a separate post. I want a dedicated thread where I can post information about the swap as it happens and document everything. 
I've been talking about a swap with E-fab Motorsports for a couple months now, knowing that a V10 in an E46 would be a dream to park next to my S65. Research has been done, and other shops who have done these swaps have been contacted for information. We know what the budget should be, and I'll be working with E-fab such that this car can hopefully be used to help promote Eric's business in the Chicago area and potentially beyond. He's done a lot of good work for me this past year and we've developed a good relationship, he's able to fabricate and has a great wiring tech so I feel like this is a sound partnership for the swap. 
What is the goal? This will be a complete swap with fully functioning amenities - A/C, heat, power windows, push button start, etc. Nothing is going to be haggard or half-assed. The custom exhaust will even be valved with an in-cabin F-you button to activate/deactivate. The swap is not done with a standalone ECU/programming. The car will use the stock E60 M5 ECU, flashed by Epic and wired in to the E46 harness and dash cluster. 
Some key points of consideration:
1) stock e46 M3 steering rack can be used with an S85 from this 2008 donor because by 2008 BMW had moved the CAS module out of the M5 steering column. This is enormously helpful because it allows the swap to go on without any suspension modification or steering modification 
2) The engine fits with no modification required to the oil pan, and stock S85 headers also fit although it is tight. 
3) Fabrication requirements are limited mainly to custom engine mount brackets, some subframe modification, and making a driveshaft/shifter assembly. A couple odds and ends need to also be fabricated like custom power steering lines which is about 400 bucks, and some custom coolant hard lines to the block
4) A 6MT from an E9x M3 can be used in this swap as it bolts right up to the S85 block
Most of this basic info has been procured from Epic who has done a couple of these swaps, and they also provide a flash tune for the ECU for this swap
Now, on to the real exciting news - Steve at Blunt Tech posted a 2008 M5 on R3V a few days ago with only 33k miles on it, totaled due to side impact (see photos). He sent a video of the car starting right up and mechanically it is all good. Other than being an SMG, it's a perfect donor. It was only $7k which I am sure I can recoup most of by selling the Dinan exhaust, rear end, low mileage SMG, suspension, wheels, and probably the currently ruined interior to a tracksuit-wearing russian with a 530i (E-fab made up the part about the russian but I'm taking credit anyway).
The car has been acquired as of now. Sometime over the next month I'll likely be down there in the shop helping Eric part out the shit I want to sell. The actual swap work will likely begin in January/February and hopefully be done by April. 
Before anyone asks the inevitable question of "what are you gonna do with your S54 engine/trans/harness?" - I don't know for sure yet, but the current ideas are this:
1) Eric at Efab needs an engine for his E36 so we may be working out a deal for the labor on this swap by giving him my S54 parts so he can build his E36
2) Buy an E30, do an S54 swap and rejoin the cool kid E30 crew so I don't feel out of place when rolling with TJ, or more than likely flip it on BaT for double my money and make a $10k profit which would make my entire S85 swap....basically free lol
3) Sell it as a swap kit to a person in need who I don't deem to be a shitfuck. 
For posterity, I have to post 1 pic of the E46 as it currently is. Pics of the M5 donor are below:

 

 
I have talked with Efab at length and we've gathered cost information from several parts providers for everything that needs to be customized at this point - things like the radiator, ac lines, oil cooler/lines, etc. which all are going to have to be custom built. This list is not exhaustive and will be updated over time - it includes what we feel is 98% of the necessary parts for the build currently. 
It is worth noting that this does not include labor costs for things like R&R the engine between the S85/E46, or labor to part out the S85, or installing the additional parts on the E46 like the new diff, trans/clutch, etc. Most of that is being given to me for free by Efab since the expectation is that promotion from this build will likely net them some new deep-pocketed customers in the future.
PRICING / PARTS BREAKDOWN:
 
 
 
 

although you're trying to teach algebra to a toad, i applaud your effort.
 

i'm just hoping the world sinks to apocalyptic oblivion before the day i no longer drive an e30

I would never sell my E30

If only. My plan right now is to throw an S85 in the E46 and then take the S54 and drivetrain from the E46 and put it into an E30. 

If only. My plan right now is to throw an S85 in the E46 and then take the S54 and drivetrain from the E46 and put it into an E30. 

Christ that thing looks nice. 12k isn't *that* steep if it's truly a rust free car, has an LSD, and is as well-maintained as advertised. I want to buy this but I'm also out of room now having 4 vehicles. Great find I kinda hate you right now because I'm so tempted to go look at this lol 

Christ that thing looks nice. 12k isn't *that* steep if it's truly a rust free car, has an LSD, and is as well-maintained as advertised. I want to buy this but I'm also out of room now having 4 vehicles. Great find I kinda hate you right now because I'm so tempted to go look at this lol 

I would just like to say that I agree with all of the aforementioned comments. That is all. 

If anyone wants to review the route ahead of time to get familiar these are the instructions. With the wet roads we will be on i'm expecting it will be a bit longer of a drive. I recommend bringing up a Google earth view on your map and it will be pretty easy to visualize the overall route. 
TJs house to Parry to waterville S to ZZ
ZZ to 67 S to Piper E
Piper to Waterville N
Waterville to ZZ W
ZZ to 67 N 
(short) 67 to ZZ W
ZZ W to County N southbound
N to 59 W
59 W to County S southbound
County S to 67 E
67 E to LO E (slight right)
LO to Beulah south
Beulah to J eastbound
J to I northbound
I to LO eastbound
LO to 83 stop lights, cross over on to Pearl ave
Pearl to National/Fox east
National (Hwy ES) to Hillview north
Hillview comes to a tee Johnson splits left stay on Hillview to the right
Hillview to Oakdale/XX north
Oakdale/XX to Lawnsdale west
Lawnsdale to River s
River to Point w
Point quickly breaks 90 degrees north
Point to Saylesville rd / X
quick left onto Saylesville then right  onto Rockwood Trail 
Rockwood to 59 W
59 to Hillside N
Hillside to Wern Way / Hwy D west
D to Highview south
Highview to E north
E to D west (D is also Wern Way)
D to C (waterville intersection)
waterville to ZZ west
ZZ to 67 N
67 to TJs

Police escort? Solves both problems...

TJ is probably too kind. 
He asked if I would help, so after I got done watching a bunch of M3 videos on Friday night because I have no M cars right now and miss the sounds of the S65, I stayed up till 2:30 planning a route. amazingly there were no dead ends and only a couple of roads that were Wisconsin-ish i.e. crumbling. 
The route has the usual Kettle roads including 3 passes through Waterville Rd because I love Waterville, and some new roads that TJ and I haven't done before. Basically we will be starting from Dousman, heading south a bit, then coming back up and west through Dousman, down to Eagle, east to Mukwonago and then northwest-ish until we get back to Dousman. There is a good mix of some curvy roads (some new ones that we discovered which are really nice), some very long straight backroads where people can 60 roll/rage crash into trees, and a handful of county highways that we need to unfortunately be on sometimes to connect everything together. 
There are a couple of designated "catch-up" spots in case we get separated but most of the route should be conducive to keeping everyone together. There's only one place to really watch out for police and that is when we are on Hwy LO and ES going through Muktown because for whatever reason cops are incredibly anal there about any sort of speeding. 

39k seems high to me for that with the mileage and paint issues. This price is the going rate on BaT auctions if you look at the graph plots IF the car doesn't need a significant amount of paint work. Cars in this price range usually have only very minor spots of clearcoat issues at worst. For the convenience of local, this would be a pretty cool car if you could get it for like 35k. Still a lot but you probably won't ever lose money on it. 

Google got finnicky when the roads started overlapping each other in the Dousman area so I gave up. 

TJ is probably too kind. 
He asked if I would help, so after I got done watching a bunch of M3 videos on Friday night because I have no M cars right now and miss the sounds of the S65, I stayed up till 2:30 planning a route. amazingly there were no dead ends and only a couple of roads that were Wisconsin-ish i.e. crumbling. 
The route has the usual Kettle roads including 3 passes through Waterville Rd because I love Waterville, and some new roads that TJ and I haven't done before. Basically we will be starting from Dousman, heading south a bit, then coming back up and west through Dousman, down to Eagle, east to Mukwonago and then northwest-ish until we get back to Dousman. There is a good mix of some curvy roads (some new ones that we discovered which are really nice), some very long straight backroads where people can 60 roll/rage crash into trees, and a handful of county highways that we need to unfortunately be on sometimes to connect everything together. 
There are a couple of designated "catch-up" spots in case we get separated but most of the route should be conducive to keeping everyone together. There's only one place to really watch out for police and that is when we are on Hwy LO and ES going through Muktown because for whatever reason cops are incredibly anal there about any sort of speeding. 

TJ is probably too kind. 
He asked if I would help, so after I got done watching a bunch of M3 videos on Friday night because I have no M cars right now and miss the sounds of the S65, I stayed up till 2:30 planning a route. amazingly there were no dead ends and only a couple of roads that were Wisconsin-ish i.e. crumbling. 
The route has the usual Kettle roads including 3 passes through Waterville Rd because I love Waterville, and some new roads that TJ and I haven't done before. Basically we will be starting from Dousman, heading south a bit, then coming back up and west through Dousman, down to Eagle, east to Mukwonago and then northwest-ish until we get back to Dousman. There is a good mix of some curvy roads (some new ones that we discovered which are really nice), some very long straight backroads where people can 60 roll/rage crash into trees, and a handful of county highways that we need to unfortunately be on sometimes to connect everything together. 
There are a couple of designated "catch-up" spots in case we get separated but most of the route should be conducive to keeping everyone together. There's only one place to really watch out for police and that is when we are on Hwy LO and ES going through Muktown because for whatever reason cops are incredibly anal there about any sort of speeding. 

TJ is probably too kind. 
He asked if I would help, so after I got done watching a bunch of M3 videos on Friday night because I have no M cars right now and miss the sounds of the S65, I stayed up till 2:30 planning a route. amazingly there were no dead ends and only a couple of roads that were Wisconsin-ish i.e. crumbling. 
The route has the usual Kettle roads including 3 passes through Waterville Rd because I love Waterville, and some new roads that TJ and I haven't done before. Basically we will be starting from Dousman, heading south a bit, then coming back up and west through Dousman, down to Eagle, east to Mukwonago and then northwest-ish until we get back to Dousman. There is a good mix of some curvy roads (some new ones that we discovered which are really nice), some very long straight backroads where people can 60 roll/rage crash into trees, and a handful of county highways that we need to unfortunately be on sometimes to connect everything together. 
There are a couple of designated "catch-up" spots in case we get separated but most of the route should be conducive to keeping everyone together. There's only one place to really watch out for police and that is when we are on Hwy LO and ES going through Muktown because for whatever reason cops are incredibly anal there about any sort of speeding.