Rowleym Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 I'm LOVING that intake mani above!!! I wonder what the power band would feel like to run a intake mani like that NA, with the intention if running boost in the future? I'm assuming a slight lose of low end torque, but possibly a slight gain at higher end (depending on runner length and size). I'd want internal full bell radius stacks integrated into design.... Very easy to do with m20! Especially if you aren't incorporating itbs. But I bet you 50$ that intake manifold won't flow better than stock NA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassE Posted May 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Very easy to do with m20! Especially if you aren't incorporating itbs. But I bet you 50$ that intake manifold won't flow better than stock NA.Stock NA? You're probably right. With some standard bolt-ons tho (cam, chip tuning, bigger injectors, etc...) I wouldn't be as confident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 You could make one work for a good NA build before going to a turbo, but it wouldn't be any better than the octopus besides looking better. In that case, I say do it because I am a douche and am all about looks=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassE Posted May 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 I hate the original manifold enough I'd have no issues sacrificing some performance to change the aestethics until I had everything ready for boost. I'd like to pursue the ITB route tho if we can make it cost effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B C Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 A log manifold will have much nicer acoustics/induction sound than the stock M20 manifold. I would do a custom log manifold before ITBs, you will still gain awesome sounds, especially when running MS with a map sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 A log manifold will have much nicer acoustics/induction sound than the stock M20 manifold. I would do a custom log manifold before ITBs, you will still gain awesome sounds, especially when running MS with a map sensor. So you believe ITB's with boost wouldn't be really worth it? I could build a regular manifold this weekend... hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 And how long of runners should I build? You should help me design a plenum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassE Posted May 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 I can swing buying the materials and labor for a good log mani in fall - I don't think ITB's and everything to do it "right" are my budget for this fall. Here's what I would like to see:-Tapered plenum that clears stock brake booster-Velocity stacks (preferrably full bell radius that protrude "into" the plenum - but brake booster clearance could be an issue)The main issue I see is the brake booster - clearing it restricts the runner lengths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 http://www.massivebrakes.com/brake-systems.php?p=brake-booster-delete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Well we are starting on our intake manifold this weekend, and we are going to build two! At least for now. Now to find/build some velocity stacks.Would velocity stacks even matter with forced induction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 http://www.massivebrakes.com/brake-systems.php?p=brake-booster-deleteI should do this.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B C Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Velocity stacks are always beneficial. Instead of removing the brake booster, I would probably opt for runners that are angled forward so that the runners and plenum clear it just fine.Im thinking buy some aluminum 130 degree mandrel bends and do a bundle of snakes like the M5, though all the snakes would be pointed towards the back of the drivers side headlight instead of all over the place. This would not only help with the clearance issue, but it would also allow you longer runners to keep the mid-range happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassE Posted May 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 http://www.massivebrakes.com/brake-systems.php?p=brake-booster-deleteI'll have to read up on this more tonight - but that's a nice solution! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B C Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Decreasing the braking power is always the first step to going faster Rowleym 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 130 degree bends to cut in half? What runner length would you like? I cut a manifold up, and I will be taking measurements tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassE Posted May 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 He means a runner angle like this:Which would work best for NA if you can clear the booster (or delete it). Longer runners will give more torque in lower RPMs. I love this idea - I'm not sure it's a "whack it up and weld" kinda job - but I don't know your fab skills either. Regardless - if I stay M20 this is most likely course of action in fall! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B C Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Ah yes. Looks like its been done before. Nice work finding the pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrLeadFoot Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 If you keep the M20 carbs would be a unique look. http://www.performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?67286940-NA-M20-with-TK-goodnessIf you're going for big power go 24v.Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B C Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 If you keep the M20 carbs would be a unique look. http://www.performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?67286940-NA-M20-with-TK-goodnessIf you're going for big power go 24v.Sent from my SCH-I535 using TapatalkMention of ditching EFI for carbs and ditching M20 for 24v all in one post. I cant handle this. Rowleym, The Full Banana, KaiserRolls and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrLeadFoot Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 If you keep the M20 carbs would be a unique look. http://www.performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?67286940-NA-M20-with-TK-goodnessIf you're going for big power go 24v.Sent from my SCH-I535 using TapatalkMention of ditching EFI for carbs and ditching M20 for 24v all in one post. I cant handle this.Haha. That post has Snap written all over it!Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 He means a runner angle like this:Which would work best for NA if you can clear the booster (or delete it). Longer runners will give more torque in lower RPMs.I love this idea - I'm not sure it's a "whack it up and weld" kinda job - but I don't know your fab skills either. Regardless - if I stay M20 this is most likely course of action in fall!If Anyone has a CAD drawing of an m20 manifold flange, I could CNC a flange, and not use the stock stuff at all, but then I would also have to build injector bungs, and then it starts getting costy(for you guys). I was going to use the stock manifold, and cut the flange, to try and keep the cost low for the people. And its damn easy. But I do have material for 3 Intake manifolds for supercharged m50's currentlyI am adapting a gen 3 eaton m90 to 24v's, but I am also thinking about doing it to an e30 But I do not have velocity stacks yet(wasn't going to use them with the supercharger) and I don't have those little bends. But why did you say 130* snap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B C Posted May 3, 2014 Report Share Posted May 3, 2014 But why did you say 130* snap? I was laying on my side while I posted that, now that I am right-side up, it would be more of a 60-70 degree bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassE Posted May 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Started replacing front tie rods last night - didn't know BMW used a lock plate to hold the inner tie rods.... Which apparently needs to be replaced since you ruin them removing the originals.So dealership will have some for me tomorrow - car sits until then. So no alignment before Saturday. No happy about it - but not super concerned either. Rear toe looks good, car tracks straight, camber is alittle off side-to-side but not enough to worry me for 200 miles.After the GTG.... Time for some painting and coating in the bay before Scooters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B C Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 E36/Z3 does not use lock plates. I just used blue loctite on my Z3 rack and have had zero problems with it.Ask anyone about what a sane and gentle driver I am and you will take comfort in knowing its kosher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 E36/Z3 does not use lock plates. I just used blue loctite on my Z3 rack and have had zero problems with it.Ask anyone about what a sane and gentle driver I am and you will take comfort in knowing its kosher My compact uses them http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=CG53&mospid=47505&btnr=32_0630&hg=32&fg=25 It also looks like other e36's use themhttp://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BG13&mospid=47485&btnr=32_0630&hg=32&fg=25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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