Rowleym Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Anyone have any thoughts on what suspension I should run? Looking to spend like 800 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B C Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 You'd have to list some goals/intentions to pick it out properly. Are you going for looks only, handling only, handling/ride comfort, handling/looks, etc. Sway bars are a great upgrade but definitely the wrong place to start. They don't make as big of a difference as one would think, and IMO should be picked after the rest of the suspension is chosen so you can decide on how much you want to change the under/oversteer characteristics of the car. One thing is for sure, replace all of the suspension rubber bits: Sway bar bushings, End Links, control arm bushings, subframe mounts, trailing arm bushings, strut and shock mounts. You would be surprised at how much these pieces matter. The M3 offset control arm bushings (or any polyurethane variant with an offset hole) is a must IMO for a great handling E30. The offset bushings increase caster, which increases dynamic camber. You dont need to run as much static camber to get the benefits camber offers since negative camber will increase with steering angle. If you want big wide wheels you may run into some rubbing issues with offset bushings that you wouldnt have otherwise. You probably want a coilover setup since springs are cheapish and available in lots of different rates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 ^thanks for that. Yea definitely coils. This car is mainly for drifting/sometime autox. I'm thinking 10k/12k bc coilovers or something looking to spend about a grand. I do have fabrication skills if necessary too. This car is also a weekend cruiser if I want to. Looks are kind of an issue too. But not really. Any coil will be perfectly low for me. I don't really care about ride quality. I just want them to preform well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B C Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 (edited) Something that I have been working on over the last year or so (maybe a few minutes every month in my free time) is determining the roll-centers and CG of the car. The distance between the CG and the roll center (both imaginary points in space) is called the roll-couple. You want the roll couple as short as possible. The unfortunate truth about lowering cars is that with a typical suspension design, the roll center changes faster than the CG does. In short, the larger the roll-couple distance, the stiffer springs and sway bars you need to control body roll. If you have heard anyone ever mention the idea of RAISING a car to get optimal handling then this has to do with taking advantage of the roll couple. A large roll-couple is not the end of the world but if you can have a short roll-couple and softer springs and equal handling to someone running very stiff springs, then life becomes peachy. Softer springs are a good thing if you can get away with them. The tire will follow the road variations more precisely which improves your contact patch and weight transfer will be more predictable and less prone to snap oversteer. There is much more to it though. If you have been in a newer BMW or Porsche and were blown away by the way the car handled, yet had a nice ride, then you have experienced a well-engineered suspension setup which takes roll-couple into serious consideration. Again, there are certainly other factors but if you are able to shorten the roll couple as much as possible, it puts you in a much better position to have BOTH amazing handling and soft enough springs for good road compliance. Edited January 18, 2013 by Snap Understeer mixed up the words "couple" and "center" in one sentence, big difference. bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240sxguy Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Rubber lines are fine. Braided lines get dirty and look like shit. They are also a goddamn nightmare to assemble. I run russell (or whomever) push lok fittings and line. It sounds like you don't know much about fueling and need to start doing more homework about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 ^truth. I've been doing researching like crazy. Any good links you have on some fueling research that is crucial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Something that I have been working on over the last year or so (maybe a few minutes every month in my free time) is determining the roll-centers and CG of the car. The distance between the CG and the roll couple (both imaginary points in space) is called the roll-couple. You want the roll couple as short as possible. The unfortunate truth about lowering cars is that with a typical suspension design, the roll center changes faster than the CG does. In short, the larger the roll-couple distance, the stiffer springs and sway bars you need to control body roll. If you have heard anyone ever mention the idea of RAISING a car to get optimal handling then this has to do with taking advantage of the roll couple. A large roll-couple is not the end of the world but if you can have a short roll-couple and softer springs and equal handling to someone running very stiff springs, then life becomes peachy. Softer springs are a good thing if you can get away with them. The tire will follow the road variations more precisely which improves your contact patch and weight transfer will be more predictable and less prone to snap oversteer. There is much more to it though. If you have been in a newer BMW or Porsche and were blown away by the way the car handled, yet had a nice ride, then you have experienced a well-engineered suspension setup which takes roll-couple into serious consideration. Again, there are certainly other factors but if you are able to shorten the roll couple as much as possible, it puts you in a much better position to have BOTH amazing handling and soft enough springs for good road compliance. Why do all drift cars slam the crap out of the car then? I know what you are saying is the truth, but I was just wondering why they do it. You are my hero by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian. Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 It lowers the center of gravity, significantly. BUT, if we narrow down the vehicle further to lets say an S13 chassis, Coupe. Because hatch's are gay as fuck. They change LCA's, UCA's RUCA/LUCA's, tie rods, everything. Everything becomes aftermarket suspensionwise, and is 110% adjustable, and you can get mad tight steering lock like this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B C Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Why do all drift cars slam the crap out of the car then? I know what you are saying is the truth, but I was just wondering why they do it. You are my hero by the way. If someone slammed a drift car for anything but style, it would be to lower the CG and reduce the chance of the car "tripping" if it caught grip while going sideways and flipping the car. I would have to believe that style is the driving factor in it all since drifting from a spectators standpoint is all about style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian. Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 If someone slammed a drift car for anything but style, it would be to lower the CG and reduce the chance of the car "tripping" if it caught grip while going sideways and flipping the car. I would have to believe that style is the driving factor in it all since drifting from a spectators standpoint is all about style. This basically, Drifting originated in Japan, if you ever heard anything about japan, it's all about standing out. Drifting was always about being flashy, low and loud. Go to Japan, any car you ever see that's modified, is millimeter(s) off the ground. Granted their roads allow it. It's mainly for show, but it also serves the purpose of lowering CG, and the entire suspension components are adjustable to a ridiculous degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 My friend can make me custom LCA's, and I'm getting the e36 rack for a better lock, and I'm using spacers. It should be decent without customs control arms, but eventually I would like to do that. Just need to learn more for dimensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian. Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 My friend can make me custom LCA's, and I'm getting the e36 rack for a better lock, and I'm using spacers. It should be decent without customs control arms, but eventually I would like to do that. Just need to learn more for dimensions. Have fun with that R&D. Anyone can make RUCA/LUCA/RCA/UCA's. But they need to be able to take a pounding. Also, don't use spacers to get better lock. That shit will fail catastrophically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Dude people use spacers all the time. They never fail. Look them up for the e30. Lot of companies sell them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian. Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Still janky way to do it. I refuse to research 3 series stuff. Especially from you. BOY. Also, why the fuck aren't you paying attention in class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Hahaha I haven't paid attention in class in ages. But currently at home because its finals, and I had class from 8-9:30, and then I don't have class till 1:45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian. Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Oh, cute! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowleym Posted January 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Also. Maybe a small update if I haven't already mentioned. My ms3x and injectors shipped today. Bought a boost gauge, as well as an afr gauge which I will use with my spartan wideband controller. Bought trans and motor mounts from condor, along with a power steering delete. I bought a e34 pan, but I'm waiting for the guy to ship the damn thing! Hopefully i will swap it in the next week or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian. Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Whoa whoa whoa. Power steering delete, yet you're going to drift this? Have fun. Drifting with no power steering is fucking hard. And you'll probably break a few fingers. I suggest keeping your powersteering. It sucks just driving in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B C Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Whoa whoa whoa. Power steering delete, yet you're going to drift this? Have fun. Drifting with no power steering is fucking hard. And you'll probably break a few fingers. I suggest keeping your powersteering. It sucks just driving in general. HAHA! yeah I am iffy about ditching PS on a grip car (since I want the extra help to save my bacon in case I encounter a spin) but I would certainly be interested in trying to drift a car with no PS on dry pavement to see how hard it is, at least when things get to four-wheel drifting and the front tires are no longer just rolling in a straight line. Did you have plans for an E36 or Z3 rack? I absolutely love my Z3 rack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian. Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 HAHA! yeah I am iffy about ditching PS on a grip car (since I want the extra help to save my bacon in case I encounter a spin) but I would certainly be interested in trying to drift a car with no PS on dry pavement to see how hard it is, at least when things get to four-wheel drifting and the front tires are no longer just rolling in a straight line. Did you have plans for an E36 or Z3 rack? I absolutely love my Z3 rack. You can try to drift my E28. Have fun. you can't scandinavian flick for shit, even in snow. It's just hard, you can't palm steer it at all. you literally have to gorilla grip that shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian. Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Tried drifting an AE86 with no power steering, weighs like 1800lbs with 2 people in it, still was hard. Trust me dude, keep your power steering. It's difficult, even for grip driving. day to day driving is what ever in my car. I don't really care. but anything beyond that, and you'll be begging for powersteering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungCR Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 You can try to drift my E28. Have fun. you can't scandinavian flick for shit, even in snow. It's just hard, you can't palm steer it at all. you literally have to gorilla grip that shit. Its not that bad! Just sucks when you try to go full lock. But I agree your sacrificing ease of car control by doing a ps delete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian. Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Does your car have power steering chris? mines fully disconnected. Either way Mitch, keep your fucking power steering. If you get rid of it, I swear to god I'll punt your sisters dog. deleting perfectly good power steering, is literally the stupidest thing I've ever heard, unless it's for drag racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian. Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Unless you're getting a manual rack. But I don't think they make E30 manual racks. power steering racks are geared for.. well a power assisted pump. So the gearing is gunna suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B C Posted January 18, 2013 Report Share Posted January 18, 2013 Does your car have power steering chris? mines fully disconnected. Either way Mitch, keep your fucking power steering. If you get rid of it, I swear to god I'll punt your sisters dog. deleting perfectly good power steering, is literally the stupidest thing I've ever heard, unless it's for drag racing. That's right, you're first name is Mitch, and im pretty sure Kaiser's first name is Mitch too. So that gives us: 2 Dans 2 Brians 2 Ryans 2 Tonys 2 Mitchpeople YEP, I THINK SO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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