Cold start/idling concerns

[Guest norsairius]

My car seems to have a few symptoms that concern me when it comes to cold starts.

 

I don't think they're major as the car seems fine once it warms up, but I'm worried it could lead to worse issues later on.

 

Basically, when the engine is cold (especially after the car's been sitting all night) I get the following symptoms:

• Slight hesitation to start, takes longer to turn over
• Rough idle, RPMs may jump/fall 100-150ish RPM
• Whistling sound from engine bay
• Ticking sound (infamous valve tapping issue with N52s?)

None of these symptoms are present once the engine is warmed up or if I start the engine after it's been driven for a bit and it's warmed up.

 

Anything I should be worried about? I made an appointment at Concours BMW on the 11th just in case. More fun with the electric steering and thrashy 4-cyl F30 (or whatever else I might get)! I do actually like the F30 a LOT. Those two things, steering and engine noise, just need improvement. That 4 cylinder turbo really does haul ass though. By the way, I am by no means complaining about having a new BMW as a loaner vehicle, haha. I really do like it!

[Brian.]

If your car is under warranty like you're making it sound like it is, fuck it. That shit's free. But seriously, "Cold start" as of the last 2 weeks, is impossible. It's been pretty frickin' warm lately. Could be the type of oil you're running though. My car hard starts in cold cold weather, (near freezing) but I'm running 20w60...

[YoungCR]

If your car is under warranty like you're making it sound like it is, fuck it. That shit's free. But seriously, "Cold start" as of the last 2 weeks, is impossible. It's been pretty frickin' warm lately. Could be the type of oil you're running though. My car hard starts in cold cold weather, (near freezing) but I'm running 20w60...

 

"cold starts" are considered starting an engine after 8 hours since the last use. It's the engine temp, not ambient (although that can contribute).

I've notice that N52's and N55's both have hard starts in the morning. They take a bit to turn over but if there is rough idle/hesitation I think that is leading to another issue. Since your still under warranty I'd get it checked out while its free!

[Guest norsairius]

Sweet, thanks for the feedback! I figure that since it is under warranty, I might as well. My car is actually CPO, so it's covered until Sept. 2015. It's my first BMW, so I'm still not fully aware or used to all the random characteristics and whatnot. I just want to make sure everything's all right and keep this car running as long as I can! I like having the NA I6 and hydraulic steering!

 

As for the oil, I don't think that should be the problem. Concours changed the oil when I took the car in, I think it was sometime in April, to get the seatbelt gladhand guy on the passenger side fixed. But yeah, I hear ya. It's been fairly warm, so ambient temps wouldn't necessarily contribute to a slow start/rough idle in the mornings like they would on a winter morning.

[Jeff]

Whisteling sound should is the problem. Means vacuum leak. Problems that go with tht are hesitation rough idle hard starting simply find the hose and replace it.

[Guest norsairius]

Makes sense. I checked the car again just 10-15 mins ago after it sat all night and it did the same thing. The RPM variation while idling is very small, maybe just 50-100. What was odd this time is that it didn't sit at 1k-1.1k RPM for too long, it dropped back down to 800-900ish RPM fairly quickly whereas it normally idles at 1k-1.1k RPM for at least 30 seconds or so. It still made the whistling sound though, and it only seems to happen at right around 1-1.1k RPM, not below, and not too far above (my guess is the engine noise drowns it out when it gets above 1.1kish RPM).

 

I'm going to try and record a video to show to the service adviser in case it helps.

[Jeff]

Just find the vacuum hose and fix it

[Guest norsairius]

Is there a diagram I could look at to make sure I fix the right thing? I know a good amount about cars and how they work, but when it comes to working on them, I don't have much experience beyond swapping out wheels/tires for the winter and changing air filters.

[Guest norsairius]

The car seems to be behaving better in the mornings. It knows I scheduled an appointment!   It still makes the whistling sound, but the RPMs settle from 1k RPM down to 900 faster than before.

[Jeff]

I can get on mitchel some time and get you a vacumm diagram if you need it. Check the small hose on the egr valve tends to break. Also the intake boot

[Guest norsairius]

I might take some time after work tomorrow and check stuff out under the hood with the engine idling. But yeah, a diagram would help if you could get one and point out the items I should be looking at.

 

The sound only seems to be present when it's idling at 1k-1.1k RPM though, so I dunno what I'll find if it's idling below that.

 

I know the service department (and its people) at Concours is nice, but I'd rather avoid wasting anyone's time with a service appointment if I can figure this out on my own or if this isn't even a real issue.

[Jeff]

Well looked around and can not find a vacuum diagram at all only ccv.

So listen to the whistle and gind where it is coming from.

[Guest norsairius]

Thanks for looking in to it! I'll just have to see if I can find it. The way the car behaves when it starts cold doesn't give me much time to find the noise, so I wonder if the changing weather has something to do with it. It's getting more humid out, etc. It used to idle and whistle for at least maybe 40 seconds to a minute, but now the revs drop down to 900 where it doesn't whistle anymore in what feels like less than 15ish seconds.

[Guest norsairius]

I went ahead and brought the car in. It needed the brake fluid and cabin air filter taken care of anyway. I described the symptoms I've mentioned in this thread, so we'll see if anything is found! I'm overall not that concerned about it. Performance seems unaffected (as far as I can tell). I'm just a bit worried because there's new noises that I don't recognize.

 

Side note, I got a nice X1 as a loaner. Very nice! I'm not much of an SUV guy, but it's one I'd consider if I were in the market. 8 forward gears still boggles my mind a bit. It was weird when I tried going in manual mode with it. That turbo I4 is impressive. It really hauls!

[Guest norsairius]

Hey, so I got my car back from the dealer today and the issue seems to be fixed. They kept my car overnight to try out a cold start. Tomorrow morning will be when I get to test it out myself, but I'm confident it got fixed. Thanks Concours!

 

The invoice says the following:

"C REPORTS ROUGH IDLE UNTIL ENGINE IS AT OPERATING TEMP

 

25412 DME SOFTWARE PER SIB 12-21-12. INTERROGATED VEHICLE FAULT MEMORY BUT NO FAULTS STORED. FOUND SIB 12-21-12 RELATED TO CONCERN, UNFAVORABLE DME SOFTWARE. PROGRAMMED VEHICLE WITH ISTA/P VERSION 39.4, INCLUDING CAS MODULE, PER SIB 12-21-12. AFTER PROGRAMMING CLEARED FAULT MEMORY AND TEST DROVE VEHICLE."

 

Seems like there's a service bulletin for it. I couldn't find much about it online as I was hoping to find out more about it. Anyone have any connections that could get more detail on SIB 12-21-12? I'm just curious to know more, but no need to do anything to get info on it if it'll get anyone in trouble.

[Jeff]

here you go::

 

 

 

Service Bulletin listed below. 

SIB 12 15 12

INFORMATION
The Automatic Start/Stop (MSA) system is a further BMW Efficient Dynamics measure aimed at meeting BMW's commitment to reducing CO2 emissions and enhancing fuel economy.

BMW, always a leader in innovative technology, will be the first automobile manufacturer to bring MSA technology to all new models.

Automatic Start/Stop systems will become prevalent in the future, as manufacturers strive to meet increasingly stringent emissions and fuel economy requirements.

By automatically switching the engine off when the car is stationary, MSA can improve fuel economy and reduce emissions.

New F-vehicles now incorporate the second generation of MSA (MSA II), which has been further developed to operate in combination with an automatic transmission and the BN2020 electrical system.

A detailed description of the MSA Automatic Start/Stop function can be found in the ICP Technician library under Technical Training course ST1112.

SITUATION
Some drivers have expressed the desire to deactivate this function in certain situations. This can be done manually via the Automatic Start/Stop function button with the LED switched on, indicating that the start/stop function is deactivated.

However, by default, the Automatic Start/Stop function is reactivated each time the engine is started.

At the request of an owner, it is possible to modify this default logic to "Last user mode."

With this logic, the current MSA's activated or deactivated setting is stored and used on the next trip.

Note: All new BMW M models have the "Last user mode" as the default setting from production.

[Guest norsairius]

Jeff, thanks for looking in to it! I think you pulled 12-15-12 though. My car doesn't have auto start/stop (which still seemed weird to me with the loaner X1 I had, haha, but it was fine). SIB 12-21-12 was the one done on my car. No real rush to get the info, again, I'm just interested to know more about it.