The Ultimate Riding Machine

[B C]

http://blog.caranddriver.com/move-over-autopilot-bmw-unveils-autonomous-5-series-prototype/

I was not expecting BMW to be this far along with autonomous technology/so close to releasing an actual production model. Looks like they should be hitting lots within 5 years.

 

 

 

 

Why this is stupid:

1) It's not. So long as the programming is done right with enough redundancies and safety nets (and protection against whatever hackers could possibly do) it is no doubt that the roads will be much safer with autonomous vehicles.  In Wisconsin, we hover somewhere around 500 traffic fatalities per year and 110,000 total accidents resulting in roughly 28,000 (reported) injuries.  Of the accidents in WI per year, 5,000 are alcohol related and 18,000 are deer related and 0 are related to deer under the influence of controlled substances. We stand to have a better chance of not dying or being injured in a given year with autonomous cars

2) Okay so it IS stupid to have an Autonomous gasoline powered BMW premium car. You buy a BMW for the driving dynamics, if you don't, you should be buying a Lexus or Cadillac instead. The premium people pay to buy and maintain well engineered high performing cars is wasted now that we can stream Sister Wives and fog up the whole place with our vapes.  A comfortable car with snooze-worthy driving dynamics, better yet, an electric car, would be preferable. I can understand applying the technology to a good selling "normal" car but this technology fits better with something lower cost and "A to B" like an i3.

3) Cheap, Fast, Reliable, Safe,  pick..... 2?   The trouble with old cars is they aren't very safe and with higher mileage comes higher maintenance requirements. The trouble with new cars is they are expensive, especially if you want to get something that you REALLY enjoy driving. We are left with a sea of undesireable cars in the $25,000 and under price point (NEW), a vast expanse of high mileage used and abused "pre-owned" cars out of warranty that will dime and quarter us to death when the cats fail, airbag lights go on, or just need a new $80 sensor to be installed @ 12 hours shop labor because the car was packaged such that you have to remove the engine even to do an oil change.  Hyperbole, yes.  We spend so much time in cars. We should at least get to enjoy driving them, or be able to watch Sister Wives.

 

Important bit of information for the reader: My dream car is a Tesla Model S.

 

 

[GunMetalGrey]

This is why we need self driving vehicles to advance. If not for complete vehicle independence from the driver at minimum it creates new safety features that can be applied to vehicles that are being driven by a human. There have been many advancements in things like blind spot monitoring and lane departure, along with proximity based cruise control and those are excellent features but they are nowhere near what Tesla along with others have brought to the table recently.

This video is pretty impressive to me, and I think that it shows how much better than humans computers are (duh). The driver of this car may have been glancing down at their phone to check a message, or send a text, or a multitude of other things that try to steal our attention in our day to day lives. The car predicts this crash happening far before it even appears that anything will go wrong (beeping and auto braking) so why would we not put this in all vehicles regardless of their intent of being driven by a human or not?

I am all for commuter cars being driven by computers but I also fear the day when vehicles intended for enjoyment (cars, motorcycles) are being removed from the road due to their safety risk. 

[GunMetalGrey]

Side note: I was disappointed to come in here and not see this. 

[patsbimmer1]

I'm all for self driving cars but I also fear a day where I can't drive my own car on the road because it's a safety concern.  I shutter to think that my son won't be able to experience the joys of having his first car and experiencing the freedom and sense of adventure and discovery that you get from having a car.  There's something so romantic about the automobile and the freedom it gives you.  Having computers drive you from A to B will make us more complacent and will only do more to turn people off of cars.  Myself, I enjoy driving but not always for the performance of the vehicle I am driving.  My company car is a 2011 Impala and it makes me physically sick to think about driving that hunk of american genius.  It quite literally does nothing well.  But, what it does provide is sanctuary.  I don't have to answer emails, I don't have to respond to texts, I can't take notes and it's best if I can wait to get to my destination to have an in depth conversation.  I get to "turn off" for that period of time and focus on the task of piloting a 3600lb turd missile that has the potential to cause bodily harm or death if I make a mistake.

What I do like about self driving cars is the safety aspect.  I drive about 30k miles a year for work (not including the miles I put on personally) and the amount of dumb shit I see on the road is stunning.  Without a doubt I can say that there are a large number of people on the road that SHOULD NOT BE DRIVING.  Even beyond the obvious inattentive drivers there's a huge number of people who just don't understand the rules of the rude and create inefficiencies.  Things like cruising in the left lane, not moving over for on-ramp traffic, erratic speed, etc.  If all of this was controlled by a computer then without a doubt we would see fewer accidents, fewer traffic jams and more efficient traffic flow.  My daily drives would be far less stressful and if we are talking about true autonomy then I can sit back, watch a movie, respond to emails, write reports, etc.

Where this application makes the most sense is in transport based business (Sorry Chris).  Trucking, taxi's, bus's, etc.  As a business you are cutting back on wages and benefits, you have quicker delivery times due to no human issues to worry about like sleeping or eating and more consistent wear and tear.  You could manage all of your expenses more precisely.  You could program a truck to hit a certain MPG and consistently know exactly how much a trip is going to cost, when fuel stops will be needed and give exact destination eta's.  You can have bus's and taxi's running 24/7 and always on call.  There are no concerns about a driver with a heavy foot, customer service will always be the same since there is no moody driver, you'll always have the fastest route to your destination and same as trucking, targeted MPG goals.  Staffing cost's would be cut dramatically plus reduced downtime if you don't need a skilled driver behind the wheel.  This is all dependent on full autonomy but even with semi-autonomous vehicles you could achieve a lot of these goals.

The concern I have is in the vehicles ability to make decisions in a life or death situation with another vehicle or pedestrian.  This debate is a hot topic in the industry already and makes a valid point.  Who get's to decide who has the better chance of surviving?  Do the OEM's get to say if their car decides to kill the passenger in order to save a pedestrian in a walkway?  Is that a government decision?  Imagine the marketing campaigns if it's an OEM decision!  As a pedestrian you have to be scared shitless if you know that self driving cars will always choose the safety of it's occupants.  On the other hand, you'd probably see more people obeying cross walks...  

[straight6pwr]

2 hours ago, patsbimmer1 said:

I'm all for self driving cars but I also fear a day where I can't drive my own car on the road because it's a safety concern.  I shutter to think that my son won't be able to experience the joys of having his first car and experiencing the freedom and sense of adventure and discovery that you get from having a car.  There's something so romantic about the automobile and the freedom it gives you.  Having computers drive you from A to B will make us more complacent and will only do more to turn people off of cars.  Myself, I enjoy driving but not always for the performance of the vehicle I am driving.  My company car is a 2011 Impala and it makes me physically sick to think about driving that hunk of american genius.  It quite literally does nothing well.  But, what it does provide is sanctuary.  I don't have to answer emails, I don't have to respond to texts, I can't take notes and it's best if I can wait to get to my destination to have an in depth conversation.  I get to "turn off" for that period of time and focus on the task of piloting a 3600lb turd missile that has the potential to cause bodily harm or death if I make a mistake.

What I do like about self driving cars is the safety aspect.  I drive about 30k miles a year for work (not including the miles I put on personally) and the amount of dumb shit I see on the road is stunning.  Without a doubt I can say that there are a large number of people on the road that SHOULD NOT BE DRIVING.  Even beyond the obvious inattentive drivers there's a huge number of people who just don't understand the rules of the rude and create inefficiencies.  Things like cruising in the left lane, not moving over for on-ramp traffic, erratic speed, etc.  If all of this was controlled by a computer then without a doubt we would see fewer accidents, fewer traffic jams and more efficient traffic flow.  My daily drives would be far less stressful and if we are talking about true autonomy then I can sit back, watch a movie, respond to emails, write reports, etc.

Where this application makes the most sense is in transport based business (Sorry Chris).  Trucking, taxi's, bus's, etc.  As a business you are cutting back on wages and benefits, you have quicker delivery times due to no human issues to worry about like sleeping or eating and more consistent wear and tear.  You could manage all of your expenses more precisely.  You could program a truck to hit a certain MPG and consistently know exactly how much a trip is going to cost, when fuel stops will be needed and give exact destination eta's.  You can have bus's and taxi's running 24/7 and always on call.  There are no concerns about a driver with a heavy foot, customer service will always be the same since there is no moody driver, you'll always have the fastest route to your destination and same as trucking, targeted MPG goals.  Staffing cost's would be cut dramatically plus reduced downtime if you don't need a skilled driver behind the wheel.  This is all dependent on full autonomy but even with semi-autonomous vehicles you could achieve a lot of these goals.

The concern I have is in the vehicles ability to make decisions in a life or death situation with another vehicle or pedestrian.  This debate is a hot topic in the industry already and makes a valid point.  Who get's to decide who has the better chance of surviving?  Do the OEM's get to say if their car decides to kill the passenger in order to save a pedestrian in a walkway?  Is that a government decision?  Imagine the marketing campaigns if it's an OEM decision!  As a pedestrian you have to be scared shitless if you know that self driving cars will always choose the safety of it's occupants.  On the other hand, you'd probably see more people obeying cross walks...  

this is very well said. the only thing i'd disagree with is the application for the transport business. although a computer could be more efficient in a logistics sense, I don't think they will be able to replace the real world problem solving or skills portion of truck driving. secondly, in my mind it seems like it would be too easy to jack a truck full of goods if no person was at the helm. no human element would make thieves more brazen and also since the trucks are 'programmed' it would be easy to stop one by boxing it in.

[YoungCR]

I'm all for these self driving cars as long as I can still enjoy my "vintage" cars on the weekends.

2 hours ago, patsbimmer1 said:

Where this application makes the most sense is in transport based business (Sorry Chris).  Trucking, taxi's, bus's, etc. 

No offense, I think it makes the most sense too. Unfortunately there are plenty of idiot drivers and putting them in trucks makes things 10x worse. Weeding out those drivers is for the better good.

31 minutes ago, straight6pwr said:

this is very well said. the only thing i'd disagree with is the application for the transport business. although a computer could be more efficient in a logistics sense, I don't think they will be able to replace the real world problem solving or skills portion of truck driving. secondly, in my mind it seems like it would be too easy to jack a truck full of goods if no person was at the helm. no human element would make thieves more brazen and also since the trucks are 'programmed' it would be easy to stop one by boxing it in.

It surely will happen within the next 3-5 years for any "over the road" driving that occurs on long distance trips. 1 person will monitor a road train of 5 trucks just to make sure it goes down the interstate safe. 

I don't think local delivery drivers will ever be replaced, like you stated Dan it will be impossible to program all the variables of what it takes to back in to the dock at some places.

[patsbimmer1]

42 minutes ago, YoungCR said:

I don't think local delivery drivers will ever be replaced, like you stated Dan it will be impossible to program all the variables of what it takes to back in to the dock at some places.

I was trying to figure this part out in my head but more along the lines of UPS, USPS, FedEx, etc.  I'm sure it's not impossible but without some kind of infrastructure changes I don't see how to deliver items without a person (not a drone, that's a stupid idea).  

[dastuz]

Love the topic.  I spent an hour waxing poetic on the subject, however, there was a glitch in the forum that deleted it all...  Great job on this one.

[straight6pwr]

43 minutes ago, dastuz said:

Love the topic.  I spent an hour waxing poetic on the subject, however, there was a glitch in the forum that deleted it all...  Great job on this one.

i've done this many times. if you leave the page with the message not submitted there's a good chance its gone forever. i generally compose long posts in Word first.