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i may have to buy an M2


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http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1181209

 

I really wasn't sold on this car initially, but now that I know it's a modified N55 with forged internals, and almost all the camo is off and seeing how much it still looks like a 135 from the side profile, and a decent rear end, I may have to withdraw my plans to upgrade turbo on the 135i and just get an M2. I still want to see what tuners do with it and how well it performs at the track out of the box, but I really am liking the look of this car with almost all the camo gone. 

 

 

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Get in line. It's going to be just like the 1m. Overpriced. I'm in line at my dealer and will be paying $5k over msrp. Other places are charging as much as $10 over. This will be limited just like the 1m was. So figured I'll get just about all my money back when selling it with 10k miles or less on it.

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This car is not guaranteed to be limited like the 1M. BMW was very clear and official about the fact that the 1M was a special edition limited run car. The M2 has not been branded that way, and your suggestion about targeted limited production does not agree with anything BMW has been doing over that past 2 years - that is introducing 807089890 new models every week. The likely scenario is that this is going to be "limited" only in the sense that it's an enthusiast car, like the M3/M4 which already sell in limited quantities based on demand, and as such it will be "limited" by production demand. That's wildly different than an intentional sub-1000 count run of a special edition car. 

 

As for retail markup, that would not surprise me in the least, however, at this point any dealer you are talking to that claims anything is purely speculative. BMW North America doesn't know or determine anything about production ahead of time. 

 

all that said, I would never buy a brand new bmw, so my plan was to wait and see how they perform and pick one up used - if the production becomes limited to the point that prices don't drop, then I'll say F it and keep my 1er   :cool:

 

also in for pics when (hopefully) you get yours delivered  :D

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leaked article suggests price starts at $51k for a stripper model. 

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1183571

 

can't wait for the official reveal this evening.  

 

If the info is accurate, I may unable to pass this up. It will likely be hard to get one in 2016. It could end up being similar to the Ford GT350 - they announced it as a 5-year run car, and first year is only 150 units with 5k/yr production through 2020. 

 

Fingers crossed.

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yes car bloat is a problem for sure in the auto industry as a whole, but in terms of M division there has been a more holistic improvement in the cars.

 

as the weight has gone up, so has the braking power, horsepower, and if you've ever seen a modern M chassis right down to the tub, you can see a lot of strength. With a stiffer set of coilovers, I would have 0 concerns about the weight of the M2 and its ability to handle at the track, and it damn sure wouldn't feel sloppy. an M235i is sloppy because it's not an M car. It has shitty soft suspension just like my shitty soft suspension on my 135i. M cars feel tight no matter what. 

 

an e46 M3 CSL goes around the Ring in 7:50. Compared to 7:52 on the M4 and 7:58 on the M2. Think about that. That M3 CSL was 3000 pounds but it was fucking gutted. Utterly gutted. No amenities, just pure driver car. So BMW, for all the weight gain in the M series of recent years, shows the CSL is only a mere 2 seconds faster than it's direct big brother the M4. But that new M4 has driving manners and really nice tech features and better safety features. It doesn't have to sacrifice everything to have a good lap time. 

 

That's called evolution.

 

BMW M has always been about balance of performance and driving manners. They've never had a mass-production M car that is a purpose-built race car. The E46 CSL was a special vehicle that took some amount of aim at that but was never a household thing. The reason that M has been the gold standard in overall performance for 25 years is because it's a car that does everything very well, with an slight lean towards performance/racing. 

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yes car bloat is a problem for sure in the auto industry as a whole, but in terms of M division there has been a more holistic improvement in the cars.

as the weight has gone up, so has the braking power, horsepower, and if you've ever seen a modern M chassis right down to the tub, you can see a lot of strength. With a stiffer set of coilovers, I would have 0 concerns about the weight of the M2 and its ability to handle at the track, and it damn sure wouldn't feel sloppy. an M235i is sloppy because it's not an M car. It has shitty soft suspension just like my shitty soft suspension on my 135i. M cars feel tight no matter what.

an e46 M3 CSL goes around the Ring in 7:50. Compared to 7:52 on the M4 and 7:58 on the M2. Think about that. That M3 CSL was 3000 pounds but it was fucking gutted. Utterly gutted. No amenities, just pure driver car. So BMW, for all the weight gain in the M series of recent years, shows the CSL is only a mere 2 seconds faster than it's direct big brother the M4. But that new M4 has driving manners and really nice tech features and better safety features. It doesn't have to sacrifice everything to have a good lap time.

That's called evolution.

BMW M has always been about balance of performance and driving manners. They've never had a mass-production M car that is a purpose-built race car. The E46 CSL was a special vehicle that took some amount of aim at that but was never a household thing. The reason that M has been the gold standard in overall performance for 25 years is because it's a car that does everything very well, with an slight lean towards performance/racing.

I present to you, the M4 GTS. Purpose built track demon.

The m1, a homologation special track car.

The e30 m3 evo cars, homolgation special track cars.

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that little car weighs 3450 lbs?  What is this world coming to?  Is anything even close to 3000 anymore?

 

Porsche Caymans are just a shade under and I would assume those Lotus mini-cars are also, everything else performance oriented is ~3500 these days.

 

Weights never go down with very few exceptions like the new mk(whatever they're up to now) VW GTI which went down a few hundred pounds.

 

That's the world we live in.

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I present to you, the M4 GTS. Purpose built track demon.

The m1, a homologation special track car.

The e30 m3 evo cars, homolgation special track cars.

 

did you miss the part where I said they've never had a "MASS-PRODUCTION" purpose-built track car? You are going to tell me those examples you just gave were/are going to be mass-produced as the de-facto standard?

 

The M3 is the defacto standard, and that has never been sold, advertised, or reviewed as anything other than the perfectly balanced performance machine, with an edge leaning towards track-inspired driving dynamics. 

 

Not the M4 GTS, not the M1, and not any e30 evo. 

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yes car bloat is a problem for sure in the auto industry as a whole, but in terms of M division there has been a more holistic improvement in the cars.

 

as the weight has gone up, so has the braking power, horsepower, and if you've ever seen a modern M chassis right down to the tub, you can see a lot of strength. With a stiffer set of coilovers, I would have 0 concerns about the weight of the M2 and its ability to handle at the track, and it damn sure wouldn't feel sloppy. an M235i is sloppy because it's not an M car. It has shitty soft suspension just like my shitty soft suspension on my 135i. M cars feel tight no matter what. 

 

an e46 M3 CSL goes around the Ring in 7:50. Compared to 7:52 on the M4 and 7:58 on the M2. Think about that. That M3 CSL was 3000 pounds but it was fucking gutted. Utterly gutted. No amenities, just pure driver car. So BMW, for all the weight gain in the M series of recent years, shows the CSL is only a mere 2 seconds faster than it's direct big brother the M4. But that new M4 has driving manners and really nice tech features and better safety features. It doesn't have to sacrifice everything to have a good lap time. 

 

That's called evolution.

 

BMW M has always been about balance of performance and driving manners. They've never had a mass-production M car that is a purpose-built race car. The E46 CSL was a special vehicle that took some amount of aim at that but was never a household thing. The reason that M has been the gold standard in overall performance for 25 years is because it's a car that does everything very well, with an slight lean towards performance/racing. 

 

you sound like a PR release as part of the new video.  I know all the info you suggested -- that is not the point.

 

The point I tried to make in fewer words is that it is depressing to see the weight of new cars.  Sure, it may be great on track -- for two sessions.  Then the brakes overheat, the tires wear out quickly and you wish you could lose another 500lbs fast.  That is part of the reason why anyone that tracks even an e46 m3 finds out the hard way after 2 sessions that the factory brakes suck.  They are not track brakes and I'm sure neither are these -- despite their catchy blue paint job and fancy piston count!

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you sound like a PR release as part of the new video.  I know all the info you suggested -- that is not the point.

 

The point I tried to make in fewer words is that it is depressing to see the weight of new cars.  Sure, it may be great on track -- for two sessions.  Then the brakes overheat, the tires wear out quickly and you wish you could lose another 500lbs fast.  That is part of the reason why anyone that tracks even an e46 m3 finds out the hard way after 2 sessions that the factory brakes suck.  They are not track brakes and I'm sure neither are these -- despite their catchy blue paint job and fancy piston count!

 

that's cute, considering I run hot laps in my 135i with stock brakes and never have any issues after 6 or 7 30 minute sessions in a given day. Stock brakes on these cars are not racing brakes, but to make ignorant assumptions about how durable they are at the track is a step too far. 

 

I have 6-piston calipers in front but I also know that the rotor heat dissipation is not as ideal as it could be, and the caliper pistons are actually made of a shitty cheap material that has actually started on fire and melted on some 135i's at the track. I know the weaknesses of stock brakes on cars as they get heavier because stopping so much weight will generate a ton of heat. There is definitely a limit but you are grossly exaggerating the limitations of the stock brakes on these cars based on their weight. 

 

You are talking as if they are completely incapable of repeated track use. I've never seen a late-model BMW side-lined at the track due to brakes overheating. Ever. 98% of people buying a new M and tracking it will not have the skill to push the car to such a limit where the brakes would actually overheat and fail. 

 

I don't want to discount the fact that a lighter car with good brakes will allow you to brake a lot later before turn-in - there's a reason people love Miatas at the track. I'm not saying you don't have a valid point - I'm saying you are overstating limitations of modern brakes on a car like a BMW M. 2 sessions and being sidelined is laughable.

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that's cute, considering I run hot laps in my 135i with stock brakes and never have any issues after 6 or 7 30 minute sessions in a given day. Stock brakes on these cars are not racing brakes, but to make ignorant assumptions about how durable they are at the track is a step too far. 

 

I have 6-piston calipers in front but I also know that the rotor heat dissipation is not as ideal as it could be, and the caliper pistons are actually made of a shitty cheap material that has actually started on fire and melted on some 135i's at the track. I know the weaknesses of stock brakes on cars as they get heavier because stopping so much weight will generate a ton of heat. There is definitely a limit but you are grossly exaggerating the limitations of the stock brakes on these cars based on their weight. 

 

You are talking as if they are completely incapable of repeated track use. I've never seen a late-model BMW side-lined at the track due to brakes overheating. Ever. 98% of people buying a new M and tracking it will not have the skill to push the car to such a limit where the brakes would actually overheat and fail. 

 

I don't want to discount the fact that a lighter car with good brakes will allow you to brake a lot later before turn-in - there's a reason people love Miatas at the track. I'm not saying you don't have a valid point - I'm saying you are overstating limitations of modern brakes on a car like a BMW M. 2 sessions and being sidelined is laughable.

 

 

Maybe it's driver, maybe it's not.  My cars are relatively light.  In 10 years of regular track duty I've seen e46 m3's and newer have brake problems every track weekend.  The cars that don't typically have aftermarket kits on them.  I've seen it in Intermediate and Advanced run groups, typically the instructors know by then that the stock brakes aren't worth the hassle and have upgraded.

 

I saw your car at the BMW club weekend at Road America -- didn't you see any prorblems?  One guy ran home for rotors, another needed brake pads -- it's totally common on a hard driven e46+.

 

I'm glad your experiences have been different, but as you push your car harder I expect you'll probably see what I mean.

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